AN INTERVIEW WITH DR SPENCER LILLEY (Te Atiawa, Muaūpoko, Ngāpuhi)
March 2022
Image credit: Jane Ussher
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Spencer Lilley is currently an Associate Professor at the School of Information Management at Te Herenga Waka Victoria University. He has had a long career in indigenous knowledge management, library and information studies, within both academia and in library and information services. He has been very involved in both LIANZA and Te Rōpū Whakahau.
Spencer was born in Hawera, South Taranaki but grew up in New Plymouth. He attended New Plymouth Boy’s High School and then started tertiary studies at the University of Auckland. “My adopted mum was one of 13 children, so I still have lots of whānau in Taranaki. Our centre of activity was around my nana’s house at Ngā Motu by the Port in New Plymouth. Unfortunately, we don’t have our own marae although Ngāti Te Whiti, our hapū, are mana whenua for New Plymouth.” Spencer identifies as a bi-cultural New Zealander, his genealogy includes Māori (Te Atiawa, Muaūpoko and Ngāpuhi), Samoa and the United Kingdom. His father was English and met his mother while over here with the merchant navy. They married in 1952. “My mother was a native speaker of Te Reo Māori but was punished at school for speaking it. She was then punished at home for getting punished at school. It was one of those unfortunate intergenerational things and I only ever heard her speaking it to my nana”. |
“We had an interesting dynamic in my whanau with some of my dad’s and uncle’s old English attitudes sometimes coming in. I learned there that were different ways of looking at things and about compromise. One way wasn’t always right. My father fitted in with the ebb and flow of the whānau but remained proud of his Cockney roots”. I can almost go seamlessly between the two worlds now (Māori-Pākehā). Though I’m still playing catch up with my reo. There’s a deeper understanding with te reo that you don’t always get unless you are fluent, like the humour. You have to understand the language to get it. It’s a very lyrical language that needs to be interpreted rather than translated.
I studied anthropology, history, and Māori studies at University of Auckland Waipapa Taumata Rau, then later a master’s in anthropology. I was very lucky at the time with the people I was exposed to, influential people like Dame Anne Salmond, Sir Hugh Kawharu, Keith Sinclair, Ranginui Walker, Keith Sorrenson, and Judith Binney. Having first-hand knowledge of their work and interacting with them was powerful. Their work is still important. Ranginui Walker was very formal and strict – you always handed your work in on time and didn’t come late to class. He was very involved in things happening in the Māori political world and we were often told about important issues as they were occuring. Anne Salmond had an amazing analysis – she’s still one of the best scholars we’ve got in the country.
I studied anthropology, history, and Māori studies at University of Auckland Waipapa Taumata Rau, then later a master’s in anthropology. I was very lucky at the time with the people I was exposed to, influential people like Dame Anne Salmond, Sir Hugh Kawharu, Keith Sinclair, Ranginui Walker, Keith Sorrenson, and Judith Binney. Having first-hand knowledge of their work and interacting with them was powerful. Their work is still important. Ranginui Walker was very formal and strict – you always handed your work in on time and didn’t come late to class. He was very involved in things happening in the Māori political world and we were often told about important issues as they were occuring. Anne Salmond had an amazing analysis – she’s still one of the best scholars we’ve got in the country.
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“My master’s study ended with a deeper analysis of how ethnicity and identity impacted on educational decisions. Sir Hugh Kawharu was supervising me as it was his area of interest. It gave me a real interest in the different ways people view the same event or situation depending on their worldview.”
Spencer’s first library job was while doing his master’s, working at University of Auckland Library with Theresa Graham in the New Zealand and Pacific collection. “I had been doing a summer job for Keith Sorrenson who had been doing the parliamentary history of Māori electorates for the Royal Commission on Electoral Reform. So, I got to know the resources in the library well. It also built on the research work I’d been doing myself. Working at the library opened my eyes to what could be possible, and Theresa encouraged me to think about library school. I also worked in the architecture library and then went to library school in Wellington in 1988. |
Spencer Lilley and the late Ranginui Walker in 2009.
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I started my Ph.D. in 2004 while I was still working at the Massey University Library. I was under examination for almost a whole year as they tried to find people with the right expertise to examine my PhD thesis. The number of people who had qualifications in the area I was interested in (Māori and indigenous workspaces) was very low and still is. Māori, Pacifika, and those with cultural and professional skills in the library and information sector are in such high demand that they get gobbled up in other workforces. We still don’t have enough Māori and Pasifika students coming through the masters and PhD streams, let alone getting them into the profession. They aren’t coming through and there’s not a lot of incentive to get further qualifications.
We’re hoping that the new LIANZA and SLANZA Tertiary Grants scheme will help get people into qualifications. There are not enough scholarships in this area and especially not for post-graduates who can’t get a student allowance. So, getting a scholarship or grant is important to help them through. This scheme will hopefully make a difference.
My Ph. was on the information-seeking behaviours in Māori secondary school students. I worked with students from four different schools looking at the differences when they are accessing information in a ‘Māori world’ versus accessing information in the ‘everyday world’. I focused on whakapapa and cultural areas as opposed to where they got their information on everyday events. It showed that the stronger they were in their culture, the more confident they were seeking information in all areas. These teenagers were amazing to work with, very funny and engaging. They made my PhD an enjoyable project.
That’s what I say to my PhD students, “Make your research something you’re passionate about, if it’s something you’re passionate about it will be an enjoyable exercise.”
I’m currently working on the GLAMMIR sector’s contribution to the revitalisation of te Reo Māori. This is the third year of a three -year Marsden-funded research project. I’ve been to dozens of museums, art galleries, and libraries. I talk to staff about the issues they have faced, provide advice on how to add more Māori language, consistency, showing professionalism, and relationships with local iwi. There are issues, but as a sector we’re not doing too badly. There’s a lot more use of te reo Māori in our institutions and the use of subject headings from Ngā Upoko Tukutuku is something we can as a profession feel very proud of. However, I think in wider society there is still much to do in raising the level of te reo being used. For instance, you can still walk down Lambton Quay and only see one sign in the reo (Te Puni Kokiri), it’s only statues and signs of early settler names, yet we have a fabulous harbour Te Whanganui-a-Tara, surrounded by other prominent landscapes, but their Māori names are not signposted or regularly spoken”.
What are the research gaps in the sector? “There’s so much potential there. It starts with the capacity of the profession though. In my area of interest, there are many issues to explore. There are recruitment and retention issues for Māori and Pasifika people, there’s looking at what resources we’re using and how we are delivering services. There’s also looking at the information needs of certain groups – there’s such a long list. Sometimes you must break a project down into several research areas.
One area of research I’ve just started is looking at the peer review process[i] for Māori academics who publish. I will be looking into New Zealand peer-review journals and the process they use for reviewing Māori academic writing. Then I will work with universities and wānanga to see what processes they use for reviewing the work of these academics, the guidance they get on where to publish, open access versus the other publishing options. This is one of those projects that grew out of multiple conversations from people complaining about the process. Peer reviewers are not known to the writers and may not be Māori, and often you can get peer-review comments that want to tone down the cultural content which may not be appropriate.”
There are a few other irons in the fire as Spencer waits to hear back on several other research projects.
A pivotal involvement for Spencer was within library associations, LIANZA (then the Library Association of New Zealand) and Te Rōpū Whakahau. “I got involved in the local library association network in 1988 while I was still at library school and while I was at the Parliamentary Library. I took the opportunity to be involved in lots of association work. I was lucky to be exposed to many things I wasn’t getting in my day job, like putting strategies together and planning events.
If I can say anything to a new professional, it’s to build your network and make the most of your opportunities.
I worked my way up to be LIANZA vice president and president. I had pretty much done everything I could do before I got these roles and that all contributed to getting these positions. When you’re at these levels you’re aware of how everything works or doesn’t work. During the time (1989-1996) the association went through so much turmoil, nearly going broke twice. It showed me how resilient we are as a profession – fighting back to become strong again, the power of the people that believed in what we were doing and supported us.
I’ve had other opportunities like going overseas to see how things work. On a four-month trip to British Columbia as a visiting associate professor in 2015, I was exposed to issues in a Canadian context, particularly in the indigenous area, which gave me the chance to make comparisons. When you go overseas you can see how things could develop in the future.
When I was president, we bought over Chris Batt from the UK who had been instrumental in setting up the People’s Network over there, which is what we have now with our own Aotearoa People’s Network Kaharoa. Sometimes the seeds might take a while to germinate but having the right people there at the right time can get things going.
I would encourage any new graduates that are Māori or Pasifika to look at the range of opportunities you have. Don’t restrict yourself to a Māori specialist role, there are so many areas you can go. Māori and Pasifika people should be right through all our library teams. If you spread the greatness, you get more greatness. If we want to retain Māori and Pacifica people in the profession, we must find ways to retain them. A Māori specialist is more likely to move into another organisation – but we want to help them develop their professional library and information skills and stay in the sector.
My advice is to look for your opportunities, speak to as many people as you can to find those opportunities.”
If you would like to find out more about Spencer’s career click this link.
Links to publications here.
[i] The academic peer review process is the evaluation of an abstract or paper - by qualified individuals (peers) to assess if it’s worthy of being published in a journal or presented at an academic conference.
We’re hoping that the new LIANZA and SLANZA Tertiary Grants scheme will help get people into qualifications. There are not enough scholarships in this area and especially not for post-graduates who can’t get a student allowance. So, getting a scholarship or grant is important to help them through. This scheme will hopefully make a difference.
My Ph. was on the information-seeking behaviours in Māori secondary school students. I worked with students from four different schools looking at the differences when they are accessing information in a ‘Māori world’ versus accessing information in the ‘everyday world’. I focused on whakapapa and cultural areas as opposed to where they got their information on everyday events. It showed that the stronger they were in their culture, the more confident they were seeking information in all areas. These teenagers were amazing to work with, very funny and engaging. They made my PhD an enjoyable project.
That’s what I say to my PhD students, “Make your research something you’re passionate about, if it’s something you’re passionate about it will be an enjoyable exercise.”
I’m currently working on the GLAMMIR sector’s contribution to the revitalisation of te Reo Māori. This is the third year of a three -year Marsden-funded research project. I’ve been to dozens of museums, art galleries, and libraries. I talk to staff about the issues they have faced, provide advice on how to add more Māori language, consistency, showing professionalism, and relationships with local iwi. There are issues, but as a sector we’re not doing too badly. There’s a lot more use of te reo Māori in our institutions and the use of subject headings from Ngā Upoko Tukutuku is something we can as a profession feel very proud of. However, I think in wider society there is still much to do in raising the level of te reo being used. For instance, you can still walk down Lambton Quay and only see one sign in the reo (Te Puni Kokiri), it’s only statues and signs of early settler names, yet we have a fabulous harbour Te Whanganui-a-Tara, surrounded by other prominent landscapes, but their Māori names are not signposted or regularly spoken”.
What are the research gaps in the sector? “There’s so much potential there. It starts with the capacity of the profession though. In my area of interest, there are many issues to explore. There are recruitment and retention issues for Māori and Pasifika people, there’s looking at what resources we’re using and how we are delivering services. There’s also looking at the information needs of certain groups – there’s such a long list. Sometimes you must break a project down into several research areas.
One area of research I’ve just started is looking at the peer review process[i] for Māori academics who publish. I will be looking into New Zealand peer-review journals and the process they use for reviewing Māori academic writing. Then I will work with universities and wānanga to see what processes they use for reviewing the work of these academics, the guidance they get on where to publish, open access versus the other publishing options. This is one of those projects that grew out of multiple conversations from people complaining about the process. Peer reviewers are not known to the writers and may not be Māori, and often you can get peer-review comments that want to tone down the cultural content which may not be appropriate.”
There are a few other irons in the fire as Spencer waits to hear back on several other research projects.
A pivotal involvement for Spencer was within library associations, LIANZA (then the Library Association of New Zealand) and Te Rōpū Whakahau. “I got involved in the local library association network in 1988 while I was still at library school and while I was at the Parliamentary Library. I took the opportunity to be involved in lots of association work. I was lucky to be exposed to many things I wasn’t getting in my day job, like putting strategies together and planning events.
If I can say anything to a new professional, it’s to build your network and make the most of your opportunities.
I worked my way up to be LIANZA vice president and president. I had pretty much done everything I could do before I got these roles and that all contributed to getting these positions. When you’re at these levels you’re aware of how everything works or doesn’t work. During the time (1989-1996) the association went through so much turmoil, nearly going broke twice. It showed me how resilient we are as a profession – fighting back to become strong again, the power of the people that believed in what we were doing and supported us.
I’ve had other opportunities like going overseas to see how things work. On a four-month trip to British Columbia as a visiting associate professor in 2015, I was exposed to issues in a Canadian context, particularly in the indigenous area, which gave me the chance to make comparisons. When you go overseas you can see how things could develop in the future.
When I was president, we bought over Chris Batt from the UK who had been instrumental in setting up the People’s Network over there, which is what we have now with our own Aotearoa People’s Network Kaharoa. Sometimes the seeds might take a while to germinate but having the right people there at the right time can get things going.
I would encourage any new graduates that are Māori or Pasifika to look at the range of opportunities you have. Don’t restrict yourself to a Māori specialist role, there are so many areas you can go. Māori and Pasifika people should be right through all our library teams. If you spread the greatness, you get more greatness. If we want to retain Māori and Pacifica people in the profession, we must find ways to retain them. A Māori specialist is more likely to move into another organisation – but we want to help them develop their professional library and information skills and stay in the sector.
My advice is to look for your opportunities, speak to as many people as you can to find those opportunities.”
If you would like to find out more about Spencer’s career click this link.
Links to publications here.
[i] The academic peer review process is the evaluation of an abstract or paper - by qualified individuals (peers) to assess if it’s worthy of being published in a journal or presented at an academic conference.